Global Warming

[martymas]

does any one feel global warming

affects the climate.

i ask because at the moment

it is snowing here

it is sept the 19th

and it hasent snowed at this time of the year for 23 yrs

on my front lawn

it is 2inches thick

and still comming down heavily

the city i live in does have snow in the middle of winter.

but it never sticks.

so does any one think there is a climate change around the world .

or is it a weather cycle that happens once in a while .

the reason i posted was im a strong invirementalist.

and ime trying to gauge reactions from around the world

and what better place than the board .

as you all come from different

places around the world .

and many of you have snow in your country .

thanks marty

[JDoors]

In the Chicago area the weather's been ... Well, Chicago weather. Sometimes warmer, sometimes cooler. Sometimes record highs, sometimes record lows. Less rain & snow than I remember as a kid, but how accurate those memories are I can't say. My personal observations then are that the temperatures have not been significantly warmer or cooler, but precipitation has been less. However, precipitation records prove me wrong, we've been drier many times in the past.

As for global warming, I believe one would have to be arrogant to say that you can know with any certainty that temperature fluctuations must be attributed to global warming. They can't tell me what the weather will be like locally, let alone what it's doing on a large scale, but they know for a "fact" what's causing a few degrees rise in global temps? Global temperatures have NEVER been stable when you look at them in geological time and to look at just, say, the past 100 years and come to any conclusion is just plain arrogant, and at the risk of insulting someone it shows an ignorance of the meteorological history of our planet.

Is it theoretically possible? Yup. Is it theoretically possible that any attempt to manipulate global weather might actually be harmful to the environment? Yup. Look at our past record at manipulating Mother Nature: Let's put our success stories in one column and our failures in another, review the results, then tell me we need to get started on this one right away.

[jcl]

There isn't any room for opinion here, is there? Climate change is obviously real and global warming is one example of climate change. AFAICT the only reason this is controversial is that some activists have managed to redefine 'global warming' to mean 'global warming resulting primarily from human activity that must be changed' for political reasons.

Edited September 18, 2005 by jcl

[martymas]

thanks JD

do you mind if i submit your observations

to an ameuter group i belong to

observing the weather patterns

over the last 50 years.

the snow at this time of the year is very unusual

23ys since it last snowed here in sept.

but before that

it hadent snowed for 73yrs

as ive just found out.

it is about a 1ft thick at the moment

and dosent look like stopping

thanks again

marty

[Naming is hard]

does any one feel global warming

affects the climate.

i ask because at the moment

it is snowing here

it is sept the 19th

and it hasent snowed at this time of the year for 23 yrs

on my front lawn

it is 2inches thick

and still comming down heavily

the city i live in does have snow in the middle of winter.

but it never sticks.

so does any one think there is a climate change around the world .

or is it a weather cycle that happens once in a while .

the reason i posted was im a strong invirementalist.

and ime trying to gauge reactions from around the world

and what better place than the board .

as you all come from different

places around the world .

and many of you have snow in your country .

thanks marty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm i live in texas and the weather changes about every 10mins so i couldn't say XD

[robroy]

I believe that we may be in a global warming cycle but not caused by human activity. We may be adding to the effect, but not the total cause. Global weather changes over the millenia have changed the earth tremendously and will do so again. One day we may understand how the balance of the planet works and actually be able to forecast the weather more accurately. Weather announcers must be the only people who can be wrong most of the time and keep their jobs. There is a county just west of here that the residents jokingly say has two seasons, August and winter. That is because August is the only month in recorded history without any snowfall. There again several thousand years ago this whole area was under a hundred yard thick blanket of ice.

[bearskin]

LOOKY HERE

[JSKY]

The wife and I watch allot of The Discovery Science Channel.

And in one episode, they are drilling in Antarctica ice down to two miles. Ice that is millions of years old. There are periods where there were carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide levels way way above what there are now in the atmosphere. (volcanic, and impact caused). Also they have discovered reading the layers of ice that the periods of ice ages are long with very small periods of warming in between. And we are at the top point of our current warming cycle. Ice ages last thousands and thousands and thousands of years, but the warming cycle only last thousands. I can't be sure, but I thinks they said it was like a 6 to 1 ratio.

And on another side. There was one on environmental hoaxes. Just a way to get money, But if you want more on environmental hoaxes. Here is some reading material for you to go through.

environmental hoaxes

enviromental hoaxes

[Bubba Bob]

Very Interesting Bearskin! I hadnt heard of that.

But, I agree with yall. What pisses me off is students are being taught that global warming is created by humans. They are being taught this is a FACT!

Hell, I could easily say, yeah global warming is killing us all. 100 Degree highs in september is unusual, but thankfully i can think for myself.

[jcl]

There is a possibility that we're on the brink of a small ice age, similar to the Little Ice Age ca. AD 1300 to 1800. The Abrupt Climate Change section of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institude website has the details.

Edited September 19, 2005 by jcl

[macmarauder]

you know what i just don't know anymore. i've read tons of reports saying that global worming is the direct effect of humans and recently in the last 5 years i keep coming across reports saying that it's other.

[blim]

A foot of that "stinkin' white stuff", Marty??? Aww, com'ere, you need a hug. That would be like having that much in March, which happens in Michigan, but it's no fun so close to Spring....

Well, I think that human's inventions have contributed to a decrease of the quality of Earth's atmosphere---it just has to--but I also think the Earth naturally goes in cycles.

Living near Lake Michigan, we see it with the lake levels. In the 1970's-1980's, the beaches were literally dissapearing and Dunetop homes were falling into the lake. Now, there are majestic beaches again. I understand it's a seven year cycle, but homes that were 100 years old were destroyed or moved back away from the bluffs. And this year, Lake Michigan is down 3 inches. That's a huge amount of missing water, but the water companies are also drilling Michigan water and there's been a drought this summer, so who knows??

I figure all I can do is lead as environmentally proper life as possible--avoid "drive thru lanes" (park and turn off the car and walk inside instead), hang laundry on the clothesline, avoid using plastics and chemicals, recycle what I can....It doesn't help much, but it's about all one measly person can do.

Hiya, Bearskin!!!!

Liz

Edited September 19, 2005 by blim

[martymas]

hi team

i built my first snowman in 23 years

this morning.

or i helped the kids

i was wet from the bum to my toes

even my nose went for a walk

but i loved it .

the kids designed the sman not me .

====================================================oon a more serious note .

i was wrong in my post

there has never been snow fall after august

in nz .

i dont want to get into the argument

about global warming

i have my theorys

and they are personal

tho i value your input .

and i am going to email your theorys to the group i belong to

im glad i posted this little snippet

as you can see the

answers are wide and variable

thanks team

well imust give my bum a hot shower

marty

.

[thesidekickcat]

I am 61, living in a different part of the NW but still on the rainy side of Cascade mountains so the climate is generally the same as where I grew up in the Puget Sound area of Wa as it is now. But I remember as a small child in late 40's and early 50's of it being much colder with more snowstorms, also a lot more rain then compared to now. Sure there are variances here versus where I grew up, such as the Columbia River Gorge is a major funnel for cold air pouring through giving us our famous ice storms, but even they have not been as frequent as they were 30 to 35 years ago when I first came here.

Also there are many climate differences in the entire Metro Portland region depending on your exposure to the East winds (from the Columbia Gorge) or out of that path, or depending on which side of the hills around the area you are on for the rain shadow effect. With our varied geography many areas differ from each other considerably. Even from one side of street to another, or in one's own yard, there are micro-climates which vary year to year or over longer periods of time as does the whole area. So what is recorded at PDX airport (by National Weather Service) can and is quite different than many parts of the metro area.

The weather cycle seems to be on a longer term basis, perhaps 50 or 75 or 100 or more years I have heard, at least here in the NW, but if it is past midpoint of cycle yet, I am not sure anyone knows for sure. Also consideration needs to be made for the global weather patterns affecting us locally, along with regional or larger areas. So it seems to be a complicated issue for many reasons. Then there are year to year variances that seem to be rather random and outside the main trend of the whole cycle.

As for the argument of whether global warming is mostly caused by human activity, I seriously doubt how much effect mankind has in geologic timing. We are only a pimple on the face of mother nature's clock. There are many things in nature that can send gases and debris such as ash, sand, smoke etc up into the jet stream that can go around the globe multiple times and even block out the sun. For instance volcanic eruptions send ash plumes many thousands of feet up into jet stream. Mt St Helens eruptions in 1980 sent ash and gas over 60 to 80 thousand feet up and went around the world many times with ash dropping out from near to far locally and around the globe. There was a recent sandstorm in the Middle East that our regional weather forecasters told us would not only effect our weather but some of the tiny particles of sand could drop over us. Same with smoke from fires half way around the world can effect us via the jet stream carrying it our way. Another thing mother nature has that can cause problems weather wise is lightening strikes causing forest fires. First the smoke enters atmosphere, but the longer term problems are on the ground with loss of trees and barren ground causing sun to bake the area, versus the trees cooling it (also trees absorb various gases and give off oxygen so that loss is a problem). And then rains come and wash the soil away and cause flooding which changes the local geography which shapes that local weather pattern even more, which then causes more soil baking in the sun later, and less chance for new trees and greens to grow, and even in some on the desert edge areas more desertification. So from swamp gases, to volcanic gases, to volcanic ash, to fire (with it's own weather patterns during the fire) smoke gases and ash etc, mother nature does her own global changes on dry land, and lots of that effects the streams, rivers and ocean so it all affects the weather eventually. The oceans also have their own patterns such as the el nino and la nina patterns, the various currents bringing warmer waters north or swinging like the jet stream above in other direction which changes the weather patterns. And there are a myriad of other things that happen that can radically change the weather for a short or long term depending on the severity and longevity of the change.

So if man is a small part, mother nature is the bigger culprit.

I am not saying that we should do nothing to alleviate the effect we have on the balance of what happens. We can and should do what is right to be good stewards of this earth. From reducing car emissions to corporate gases....and just think of all the hot air generated by politicians, various media outlets, and protest groups shouting instead of doing, etc... From individually working to plant trees to recycling to buying energy efficient appliances and a multitude of other small steps we can each and every one make a tiny difference. But we also need to ask ourselves how far to take this whole effort, do we seriously want to go back to living in caves and becoming hunter/gatherers again as the more radical environmentalists seem to suggest (though I don't see them doing a lot of downsizing of anything for the most part) or do we want to invest in the future with new inventions and technology to solve some of the problems that beset this planet? I wonder sometimes if the politics of global warming cause people to turn it off when we should be trying to find a balance point of what is doable yet livable for the way life has progressed on this planet?

Global warming is an issue that I think may boil down to the old saw...you can talk about the weather but you can't change it...in the long run, via the cards being stacked against us by mother nature, that may be true.

Edited for spelling, punctuation etc.

Pat.

God bless everyone.

Edited September 20, 2005 by thesidekickcat

[Brian_Holiday]

The global warming thing is starting to swing around in our generation, in my opinion we don't want to let it go to far the way it is going.

It is clear that human are having an effect on the environment. We destroyed portions of the ozone layer. We have problems with deforestation.

Having said that, we currently have no proof that the current warming period has anything to do with human activity. Having said that, we can't use it as an excuse for inaction. We need to do what we can to limit the polution we produce. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Think about cutting the amount of carbon we put into the air through using our cars. Buy the best fuel efficent auto you can afford and comfortably drive. Drive as little as possible. Turn off our lights when not in use, conserve what we can.

Like it or not, we are going to have to take up the slack of the emerging markets like India and China.

The solutions are out there, and my opinion is we are going to have to rely more upon nuclear energy. Before we can do that, we need Yucca open so we can store the leftovers. Once in place, we need new plants that don't use 1970's technology. The great thing is, we can make hydrogen out of water and electricity. That solves our transportable fuel problem.

BH

[JDoors]

thanks JD

do you mind if i submit your observations to an ameuter group i belong to observing the weather patterns over the last 50 years. the snow at this time of the year is very unusual 23ys since it last snowed here in sept. but before that it hadent snowed for 73yrs as ive just found out. it is about a 1ft thick at the moment and dosent look like stopping thanks again

marty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't mind, if they're not gonna hunt me down for having an opinion.

It's interesting that someone else here stated they remember more precipitation, as I also stated, and here you are stating you remember far (FAR) less.

You know, "they" say there's global warming, global climate change, and then millions of people go, "Hey! The climate here DOES change! It MUST be true!" It seems to me this is just the way we discuss weather nowadays -- Instead of blaming the weatherman, or an early goose migration, or squirrels hoarding more nuts than usual, we say, "The weather sucks because of global warming!"

No, the weather sucks because it varies from what we'd prefer as our ideal. Personally, I like snow, in fact, I love it. If I didn't have such deep roots here I'd consider moving to Buffalo, New York where they have like ten feet of snow a year (so you're not gettin' any sympathy from me for having too much ).

[martymas]

hi team

i feel i must reply to some of your posts

thee problem with google and search

you end up with a few opinions.

and a lot of them are personal

as well as being onesided depends

on what side of the fence your on

but by posting here i got a lot of variad

opinions.

and with special thanks to the posters who sent in links.

we in tend to submit our findings to a magizine [good earth]

with. i hope your permission to publish your links

thanks

marty

[thesidekickcat]

So Marty has the snow stopped there yet? And what was the final amount? What temperature range during the snow fall? Is more snow predicted for you?

I have heard that western Oregon state, and western Washington state, here in the NW corner of the US are quite similar in geography, and climate, to your New Zealand (just a lot more people here unfortunately). NZ is one of the few countries I have ever wanted to visit due to those similarities and for other reasons too.

Let's see your Sept would be like Feb is here. And if we get snow during a winter, it is very likely to be in Feb (often right after a warm spell so trees and bulbs etc, get hit hard!).

I remember years ago our next door neighbor decided to build a fence during the warm stretch. By the time he got to our side, it was snowing several inches and cold and he had to wait for concrete to set up before he could set the posts. (takes longer when cold!) He was not a happy camper with the weather changing on him before he got the project done.

This has been a very interesting thread (links too), thanks Marty.

Pat.

God bless everyone.

[irregularjoe]

does any one feel global warming

affects the climate.

i ask because at the moment

it is snowing here

it is sept the 19th

and it hasent snowed at this time of the year for 23 yrs

on my front lawn

it is 2inches thick

and still comming down heavily

the city i live in does have snow in the middle of winter.

but it never sticks.

so does any one think there is a climate change around the world .

or is it a weather cycle that happens once in a while .

the reason i posted was im a strong invirementalist.

and ime trying to gauge reactions from around the world

and what better place than the board .

as you all come from different

places around the world .

and many of you have snow in your country .

thanks marty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As W would say, "What Global Warming?"

Edited September 20, 2005 by irregularjoe

[martymas]

him thesidekickcat

yes it has stopped now

18 inches on my front lawn .

but melting fast .

when i started this thread

i was trying to gauge

what it was like in other parts of the world

i see some of you getting a bit toey.

about global warming.

as i said earlier

i have my theory

but i keep it to my self

so we dont have a flaming conversation

about whos right and whos wrong.

and i dont want to go down that raod

.i do appreciate your input .

from some one on the other side of the world

the temp only went to 8 below .

but for this time of the year

that is phenominal

however thanks again

also thanks to bearskin.jdoors.jcl.and irregularjoe

for thier links

ive enjoyed the thread

hope you have to

marty