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JDoors

Windows '98 / Ie 6.x Infinite Loop

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This is more just an aknowledgment of a problem than a request for help (buying a new computer with up-to-date software is likely the only solution).

I followed a link from a high profile website to a cutting-edge site, one that produces up-to-the-minute programs (I knew I couldn't USE the program but wanted to learn about it for future reference). I clicked a link on THAT page and IE opened another window, which never loaded any content but opened ANOTHER window, which never loaded any content before it opened ANOTHER window, well, you can see where this is going. An infinite loop.

Of course this is similar to malicious sites that open dozens of ad windows, but it was a trustworthy lead to a site I wouldn't suspect of being malicious. Plus, though it hasn't happened to me since the advent of pop-up blockers, I KNOW how to get around such sites anyway.

This was different. I couldn't close the windows faster than they opened (and I couldn't drill down to the originating window). Being Windows '98 I quickly started running out of resources (new windows were unable to render buttons, menus and such). Once buttons stopped rendering I couldn't even close new windows any more. A crash was inevitable.

I tried Ctrl+Alt+Del and closing windows that way, but the loop was even faster.

I'm guessin' a new function of Windows and/or IE was TRYING to work, but in Windows '98 and/or IE 6.x resulted, instead, in a new IE window, so it would try again, resulting in a new window ... etc.

This happened a couple of weeks ago and today I came across a similar situation; cutting edge site, infinite loop. This time via Ctrl+Alt+Del I managed to close the originating window (which displayed the "Not Responding" message) and that finally shut down IE entirely, ending the loop.

Looks like I'm going to be FORCED to update. :angry:

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Sounds like something that happened to Son on Facebook. Wasn't a cootie because it happened on three different computers while on his Facebook account and only then. Was tracked down to an "Add-on" he had on Facebook that just didn't play nice with IE. He liked this "add-on" and wanted to keep it (it was some dumb game), he switched to Firefox and hasn't had the quirk since.

Oh, while reading about the latest Antivirus Cooties (even if you click close it can install the cootie) Alt+F4 is supposed to shut programs down. When in a panic mode, Ctrl-Alt-Delete doesn't always come quickly. Alt/F4 is only two buttons to find :thumbsup:

Liz

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Unless you know something I don't know, how do you know FF isn't susceptible to this problem? I can't use the most recent version of either browser until I upgrade the OS, and I can't upgrade the OS until I update my computer, and I can't update my computer until I win the lottery. Anywayzzz, I don't care for FF. For all its "customizablity" I still can't configure it the way I have IE configured, ie. "kiosk" mode, so all the menus and buttons and tabs and the information and title bars and all that other stuff clutters up the screen. IE in kiosk mode leaves NOTHING onscreen but the web page you're viewing (newer versions of IE lose kiosk mode though, dangit).

Liz, I'm not accustomed to using Ctrl+F4, but I AM accustomed to using my keyboard's custom buttons, and one of those is a "Close Program" button. I guess in my panic I forgot about that button! I use it all the time to close programs/windows when my hand's not already on the mouse. Thanks for gettin' me thinkin'! If it happens again I'll try to remember to just keep pressing that "Close Program" button and see how that works out.

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Unless you know something I don't know, how do you know FF isn't susceptible to this problem?

Firefox asks permission before opening unrequested windows.

Anywayzzz, I don't care for FF. For all its "customizablity" I still can't configure it the way I have IE configured, ie. "kiosk" mode, so all the menus and buttons and tabs and the information and title bars and all that other stuff clutters up the screen. IE in kiosk mode leaves NOTHING onscreen but the web page you're viewing (newer versions of IE lose kiosk mode though, dangit).

F11.

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Alt+F4, Jdoors, not Ctrl+F4. And that's mighty nifty that you have a magic button on your keyboard!! Glad I triggered that memory, likely quicker than punching two buttons!! Now burn that button in your memory for when panic mode rears its ugly head!

And yeah, Firefox.....I haven't jumped to it yet and still using IE6-something (I know, I know, bad Liz!). Son says he's gonna install it on my idiotbox and teach me how to use it. I'm so old fashioned that I just don't like the looks of "tabbed browsing", but Son says since I never have more than two windows open at a time that I won't have an issue with with tabs....Report to follow :D I really NEED to Google some FF screenshots--if I know what it looks like, maybe I'll be more comfortable with it.

....I have no idea what Kiosk Mode is....don't bother explainin' it, you'll just confuse me :)

Liz

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Here's a screenshot of mine, Liz, with the addons I listed in the Firefox thread I made.

This is just my customization of firefox with my addons so yours can look any color you want and have whatever toolbars you want. etc.

post-3707-1236577384_thumb.jpg

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Liz, if you're happy with your IE, stick with it. IE7 has tabs now and you can have your IE and tabs too. TheBrit is quite happy with IE7 and uses it exclusively.

Why is it you haven't updated to 7 yet?

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Screenshot of Firefox 3.1 without customization on Windows 7. It's probably a bit less... shiny on XP but otherwise this is what you should see with a fresh installation.

post-98-1236601638_thumb.png

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Firefox asks permission before opening unrequested windows.

F11.

What if the loop HAS permission based on opening the original window? And how will FF deal with a window that my popup blocker 'add-on' (which gives IE the identical function) does not block?

I do use FF occasionally so I'll try F11 next time it's running. I recall trying to eliminate all that clutter with FF and also using a more recent IE version (on a friend's computer) and F11 did NOT work on either (maybe due to older versions than you have?). I might be wrong, or it did not function the same way (no drop down menu maybe, which would make kiosk mode useless). I do remember being frustrated that I couldn't get rid of all that clutter no matter what I did.

Liz, I don't use Alt+F4 (or Ctrl+F4) so there's no danger I'll mix that up, but thanks for the reminder just in case! Since I have used FF (and recent versions of IE) I gotta tell you, tabbed browsing is GREAT. Well, except for the screen space required for the tabs, but that's just my particular preference and why I use kiosk mode in the first place -- I'll have to be dragged into the twenty-first Century eventually though, losing the uncluttered screen while trading it for the advantage of tabs.

A screenshot of the contents of my ENTIRE monitor is below (resized for the forum); no title bar, no menu bars, no buttons, no information bar at the bottom, no nuttin', JUST the web page I'm viewing, taking up the ENTIRE available screen space. The menu drops down from the top like the Windows task bar slides up from the bottom, you just slide the mouse pointer to the top of the screen and the menu drops down. You can test it on your computer by using the F11 function key to toggle back and forth between what YOU'RE used to, and how I view the web (sans-clutter).

ss09c09.jpg

Notice JCL's screenshot has close to one-sixth of his screen space is taken up by "stuff." Mine? ZERO. Nuttin' but NET (as in: Internet, get it?). :lol:

*****

Edited by JDoors

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If you're seeking kiosk mode on FF, it's rather simple. It's like 2 addons

1. Hide Menu Bar - Addon

2. Stylish -Addon Choose Global style that Hides address bar until mouseover

3. The bookmar bar, and the status bar can be hidden (unchecked) at View - (Uncheck status bar), Toolbars - (uncheck bookmarks toolbar)

Believe me, FF is superior to IE7. I used to be a IE7 advocate, but I gave FF a go and it's unbelievable.

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What if the loop HAS permission based on opening the original window?

You can allow a site to open a window without adding the site to the pop-up whitelist.

I recall trying to eliminate all that clutter with FF and also using a more recent IE version (on a friend's computer) and F11 did NOT work on either (maybe due to older versions than you have?). I might be wrong, or it did not function the same way (no drop down menu maybe, which would make kiosk mode useless). I do remember being frustrated that I couldn't get rid of all that clutter no matter what I did.

Firefox 3 hides everything in full screen mode. The tool bar and tab bar drop down when you throw the mouse at the top edge of the screen; the menu bar, bookmarks bar, and status bar appear to be inaccessible. (Bookmarks are still accessible via autocompletion in the location bar and you can add buttons for the major menu item (bookmarks, history, etc) to the tool bar.)

Notice JCL's screenshot has close to one-sixth of his screen space is taken up by "stuff." Mine? ZERO. Nuttin' but NET (as in: Internet, get it?). :lol:

Hey, I used a small window to keep the screen shot a reasonable size ;)

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Not sure where you're goin' with the 'whitelist' comment, the problem I'm discussing is related to "new" sites I've never been to before so they're unlikely to already be listed. Besides, now I just click the 'off' button on the rare occasion a site needs to bypass the blocker and I wish to accept.

I just checked the list -- 99% of the sites listed are from WAY back when I DID use the "allow this site" option rather than just turning the blocker off temporarily. Thanks for the reminder about the list though, I'd completely forgotten about it.

*****

I tried the kiosk mode in FF (hadn't done it in a long time so I wanted to remind myself WHY I don't use it). My version, which is the most recent that will work with my OS, only hides the title and information bar. Whoop-dee-do. That jogged my memory of trying the same on more recent IE versions, again, it just hid those two tiny portions of the screen.

Which I don't really get since "kiosk mode" was meant to display IE on a screen when you don't WANT 'customers' to have access to buttons, menus, the address bar, etc. Guess that specialized use has been replaced by something else entirely (and FF doesn't have to worry about it since FF is not used for such commercial purposes to any degree).

I could customize FF to do what my version of IE already does natively (assuming your instructions would work on the only version I can use), or I can just keep using IE (at least, until too may sites start using scripts that won't work with my version -- at least, I think that's what's happening).

***

When I said WAY too much of your screen was taken up by what I consider to be clutter, I wasn't talking about the size of the picture. Blow it up, reduce it, do whatever you want to the picture, about one-sixth of the available screen space is NOT the site you wish to view.

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I just checked the list -- 99% of the sites listed are from WAY back when I DID use the "allow this site" option rather than just turning the blocker off temporarily. Thanks for the reminder about the list though, I'd completely forgotten about it.

The list of allowed sites is the 'whitelist' I mentioned. It sounds like the main difference between Firefox and your pop-up blocker is that Firefox gives you the option of allowing a pop-up window to open without adding the site to the whitelist. Basically, you can disable the pop-up blocker for a single pop-up.

I tried the kiosk mode in FF (hadn't done it in a long time so I wanted to remind myself WHY I don't use it). My version, which is the most recent that will work with my OS, only hides the title and information bar. Whoop-dee-do.

Hrm. Annoying.

When I said WAY too much of your screen was taken up by what I consider to be clutter, I wasn't talking about the size of the picture. Blow it up, reduce it, do whatever you want to the picture, about one-sixth of the available screen space is NOT the site you wish to view.

It's closer to 1/9th with the window sizes and configurations I normally use. It could be less but I use most of the Firefox UI and I don't run Firefox anywhere near full screen anyway, so *shrug*

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i thought this firefox verses the rest of the world finished long ago

once it got to 9 percent of the sales it became a target

for the not so nice people

if it is the ultimate

in browsers

why hasent it gone beyong 9 percent

ive seen this discussion

for many years

we used to argue it on techtv

g4

here

and most of all at world start

ive just come from world start

and some one there was asking how to get rid of malware in firefox

so i answered and said

try IE

but i didnt wait for an answer

i got burned with firefox some years ago and havent been back to all this properganda

marty

Edited by martymas

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jd what if you closed off your cookies

would that help

when i used win98

i was taught to keep my cookies

tight

and it worked not a 100 percent

but 99 percent

by closing your cookies

ie would question the site

then it was up to you

isnt that what firefox does

control the cookies

it is harder to get that stuff

with out a platform

and the cookie is a platform

marty

Edited by martymas

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if it is the ultimate

in browsers

why hasent it gone beyong 9 percent

Firefox's market share is well above 9%. I think it's approaching 50% in parts of Europe.

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i emailed the bbc

and they said

in the uk

it is 9 percent

in europe it has a bigger share because

it is the default browser of all linux sys's

so when you install any linux sys

you get fire fox comming ready or not

so naturally it has a bigger share like

microsopft with IE

tho micro soft has more browser choices

than linux

the difference is with linux you get a limited choice of browsers

tho i like linux

i have ubuntu but i never use fire fox

and havent used it since i started using linux

marty

Edited by martymas

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i emailed the bbc

and they said

in the uk

it is 9 percent

Hmm. Xiti had it at a hair short of 20% in the UK last year. That might be inflated but I doubt it's that inflated.

in europe it has a bigger share because

it is the default browser of all linux sys's

so when you install any linux sys

you get fire fox comming ready or not

Firefox is definitely not the default browser on all Linux system. The distros that aren't 'consumer-oriented', -- e.g. Debian, Gentoo, Slackware, Arch -- generally don't have default browsers and I would expect the majority of KDE distros to default to Konqueror and at least a few GNOME distros to default to Epiphany.

In fact, thinking about it, Ubuntu might be the only major distro that defaults to Firefox.

tho micro soft has more browser choices

than linux

the difference is with linux you get a limited choice of browsers

There are very likely more browsers available on Linux than Windows. Indeed, you can, if you perform the appropriate rituals, get most Windows browsers working on Linux under WINE. I had IE7 sort of working on Ubuntu for a while last year.

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The list of allowed sites is the 'whitelist' I mentioned. It sounds like the main difference between Firefox and your pop-up blocker is that Firefox gives you the option of allowing a pop-up window to open without adding the site to the whitelist. Basically, you can disable the pop-up blocker for a single pop-up.

Hrm. Annoying.

It's closer to 1/9th with the window sizes and configurations I normally use. It could be less but I use most of the Firefox UI and I don't run Firefox anywhere near full screen anyway, so *shrug*

You left off in the quotes you replied to where I'm in the habit of clicking the blocker off for a page when I want to allow a popup. Easy-peesy.

I played around a little more with FF and kiosk mode and got some more screen space back, but apparently you can't get rid of the tabs (which, if you did, would kinda defeat FF's best feature, even if that feature has now been copied by more recent versions of IE).

I measured. It's closer to 1/6th than 1/9th, but the whole point is moot as it's just MY personal preference to eliminate everything but the page I'm viewing. And if you have a larger monitor than I do you could STILL have more of the page displayed than I do, even with all the clutter eliminated from my screen.

jd what if you closed off your cookies

would that help ...marty

I don't think it's a cookie problem. I do keep a very tight eye on cookies; most are blocked by my privacy settings and I manually remove the ones that get through at least once a day.

Regarding Firefox, it's got a lot more momentum than IE so it'll likely keep gaining market share. But who knows, if Windows 7 gets accepted as well as every version of Windows before Vista, IE might get back some share. On the other hand, you can "remove" IE from Windows 7, so if you already like another browser you're less likely to run IE than previously.

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On the other hand, you can "remove" IE from Windows 7, so if you already like another browser you're less likely to run IE than previously.

Yeah, if only webmasters would get off of their butts and ensure compatibility with other browsers. Too lazy, too stupid or both?

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Yeah, if only webmasters would get off of their butts and ensure compatibility with other browsers. Too lazy, too stupid or both?

Well, IE still has the largest share by far, and I would guess that includes many webmasters. You can't please everybody, so just go with what will please the most with the least amount of effort. And, of course, if you make something that plays well with others, IE might choke on it and you've just annoyed the largest audience you have, so you better be really committed to alternative browsers.

And IE does have advantages. Since it DOES NOT adhere to every standard you can do things with it that you're not supposed to, but that are neat or easy or helpful in some way. Well, it's an advantage if you're trying to do those neat, easy or helpful things, others would argue it's a terrible idea, which it is, but so is speeding on the highway, yet ... it's neat, easy and helpful and most people do it.

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