(update) Optimizing A System Without Doing A Fresh Install?

[intocomputing2]

One of my friends at school has a system that is about a year old. It takes some time to load when starting up, and sometimes it runs a bit slow, I suggested for her to do a fresh install of Windows XP , but she refuses because although she has the CD, she lost the original envelope, you know, the one where the activation key is, now she wants to know if she can optimize her system without formatting and doing a fresh install, but instead using software like a defragmentation program, something to uninstall any traces from old programs that have been removed (like revo uninstaller for instance), a program to speed up startup time, minimize quick launch icons, CCleaner, and as a last measure create an extra partition where to install her programs from now on and to store all her documents. Do these options sound reasonable to keep her system with acceptable performance? or is it a lost cause because she can't do a fresh install?

Edited February 26, 2008 by intocomputing2

[shanenin]

I suppose a program(or msconfig) to disable startup programs would be very helpful.

You could also use belarc adviser to get her key, then use her install cds with that.

[intocomputing2]

I suppose a program(or msconfig) to disable startup programs would be very helpful.

You could also use belarc adviser to get her key, then use her install cds with that.

I didn't know Berlac Adviser could do that, that would be great!, can it recover a key from other programs too?, because I'm afraid the same sad story was repeated with her copy of Microsoft Office Student and Teacher Edition 2003, this one and her OS are the reasons of why she doesn't want to do a fresh install.

[shanenin]

I have revovered office keys with belarc adviser also.

[blim]

And IF for some chance you forget to retrieve the Office key--

When we reinstalled Windows on the Possessed Gateway, I didn't know I needed a key for Office until we reinstalled it.....luckily the folks from Microsoft supplied me with a "generic key" to get Office working. I just called their 800 number

Also, because now I'm curious but too chicken to try it on this PC, when we were preparing to reinstall windows98 on the PG, I double checked my activation key by looking in the Registry. Just looking!! Seems it was under "user"??? Does XP's registry have it listed?

Liz

Edited January 29, 2008 by blim

[intocomputing2]

Something odd, my friend has an option for norton antivirus in her list of Start >> All programs, we checked it out and when you click on it the wizard for installing the program shows up, well she doesn't want it after finding some free options such as Avast or AVG, and she never used/activated it before, so we proceeded to uninstall it, but the thing is, the program doesn't show up in Control Panel >> Add/Remove programs, not even under other name like Symantec or the such, we tried downloading revo uninstaller, but the program doesn't detect it either. How can we get rid of it?

Edited January 30, 2008 by intocomputing2

[shanenin]

This is the page to the Norton removal utility

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgen...005033108162039

McAfee also offers a similar removal tool for its product

http://download.mcafee.com/products/licens...atches/MCPR.exe

[intocomputing2]

This is the page to the Norton removal utility

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgen...005033108162039

McAfee also offers a similar removal tool for its product

http://download.mcafee.com/products/licens...atches/MCPR.exe

We just tried the Norton removal utility, we downloaded it, run the file and the message for "succesfully uninstalled" showed up, but the option in start >> all programs is still there, and when we click on it we still get the "Welcome to the Norton Antivirus 2003 installation wizard"

Edited January 31, 2008 by intocomputing2

[Pete_C]

This is the page to the Norton removal utility

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgen...005033108162039

McAfee also offers a similar removal tool for its product

http://download.mcafee.com/products/licens...atches/MCPR.exe

We just tried the Norton removal utility, we downloaded it, run the file and the message for "succesfully uninstalled" showed up, but the option in start >> all programs is still there, and when we click on it we still get the "Welcome to the Norton Antivirus 2003 installation wizard", guess we'll try the McAfee option then, is the McAfee removal tool the same kind of file?

Those are just installers for free trial versions (usually a sixty day trial) which are normally bundled on many computers. It is not installed yet so there is nothing to uninstall.

Just right click and choose properties to find where the installer is located . Then you can delete the shortcut and the installer.

Routine system maintenance ; uninstall what is not used, run disk cleanup to empty temp files , defrag to organize things and compact unused components until they are needed.

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I advise against using MSCONFIG as a startup control utility, as many items have entries in several other places and disabling the msconfig entry actually can decrease performance.

Why you should not use MSCONFIG to control startup entries in XP

The first method you should always try is to see if the application itself has an entry under edit / preferences or tools / options or a similar location to control its startup behaviour. The software author knows his product better than anyone else; and he went to a lot of extra effort to include these entries if they are there. You must therefore consider that he may know what he is doing (if not why do you use his product) and included these for a specific reason (rather than just a note in the readme.txt file or help file telling you to type msconfig and uncheck the entry there).

Back in the days of DOS, you had to add a line in say the autoexec.bat file to launch something on startup. You could just rem out that line and it would not start ; or delete it since you probably knew what it was and could add it back if you wanted.

But gradually windows became more complex. Win95; 98 ; and ME not only use the autoexec.bat , and files like config.sys and system.ini but primarily use a registry consisting of two files user.dat and system.dat. This makes controlling startup entries more complex; but since most programs just put in one run entry in the registry ; disabling that with a startup manger or msconfig generally was enough (although some you really should also check the system ini files and autoexec.bat especially with things like antivirus and firewall applications). Just unchecking the msconfig entry leaves the possibility of overlooking components which continue to run invisibly , eating up resources and often not allowing the resources of the associated program to be released and reused if you open the program and then close it ( a Memory Leak, or at least one variety ).

But Windows continued to get more and more complex. XP does not use just two files to save and open the registry. The XP registry is built from scratch each time you boot based on five or more hive (.hiv) files ; of which the msconfig startup entry HKLM_run is just one of many places an application may load components. In fact; generally an application loading at startup loads different components at different times during the boot sequence based on which hive the entry is in. Some may load before you log in , some after. In addition there are many other places (Services, SSODL entries , etc) where a program may include startup entries which may not show in your registry; but will nonetheless load components of the application . Thus it is not adviseable to use simple techniques like unchecking MSCONFIG entries ; you may not have disabled as much as you think.

Startup managers; like codestuff starter tend to be more "complete" in their dealing with an application and its "dependencies" but you should still check first to see if the author included control options in his application.

Yes, there are still programs out there which do not really install. You could just copy their folder to a removable drive and run it from there on any computer; and there are still programs out there which only have the single registry entry. Generally you can recognize them because they have no option in the program itself to control startup (big surprise that if the author does not think there is a need to include this extra work you generally can just uncheck the entry). And yes; it is not always disasterous to incorrectly disable a programs startup. But if you are trying to improve performance; it is best to do things correctly.

In XP I strongly advise against disabling anything using MSCONFIG. While in older versions of windows there was a single registry used by all users and the startup entries were just one location which you could check and uncheck in msconfig with relative safety ; this is no longer so.

IN XP the registry is built from scratch each time you start up based on five or more files called hives which load at different times during startup. Some do not load until you login with your username and password. The MSCONFIG entry is just a single place where a program may enter startup entries. It could have appinit dlls, ssodl entries, windows service entries and several other startup entries ; all designed to load different portions of the application at specific points during windows bootup. MSCONFIG disables just one of these. This can lead to far worse problems than the one you are attempting to combat. So please unless specifically told to do so as part of a trouble shooting proceedure by someone who actually knows what they are doing do not disable anything with msconfig.

The proper way to disable startup entries , whenever present , is to use the applications own edit/ preferences or tools/ options. The author went to a lot of extra effort to include these entries and did so for a specific reason.

So the best thing to do is to look in the system tray at lower right.

Any of the programs running there at startup? Check to see if they have an edit/preferences or tools/ options entry or other method included in them to control their startup behavior. If so , use it.

You can also check in the start/ programs / startup folder

If you find an entry there for something which does not include a method of controlling startup within the program itself, go and move them out of it by dragging and dropping them into their own folder.

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Double check for malware; if necessary post a hijackthis log and have an expert check it out for signs of infection.

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Toolbars and desktop search engines. Google, Yahoo, MSN etc all offer legitimate ones; the problem is if you have more then one they tend to conflict and slow everything; especially the desktop ones.

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Control panel => system => advanced => Performance => settings

Click adjust for best performance. You may want to add a few of the fluffy things like drop shadows for icon labels back but most of the stuff is just fluff which slows the system.

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Fancy wallpaper, and theme packs often can slow things. It is a matter of what is important; the cute bunny icons, and special fonts... or performance.

That brings up another, any extra font packs added? More fonts mean slower system. DO NOT DELETE FONTS YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT. There are ones included with windows which are essential and if you delete them things just won't work. But if you have a bunch of font packs listed in add/ remove programs uninstall them if not used (IE if you are not doing design work which needs them).

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RAM , more RAM. Most systems ship with a minimal amount of RAM totally inadequate for the system as it was; let alone once you get running with things installed. I recommend a bare minimum of 512MB of RAM for XP and more is good.

You may want to also check out my review of eboostr; I am very impressed with the performance improvements of using eboostr to cache copies of system files and prefetch files on a flash drive so that they load very much more quickly than when on the hard drive. No work on your part, the software runs as an NT service and does all the work. The free trial does not expire but only runs for four hours at a stretch (then you have to reboot). Sure it is not vista with readyboost multithreading at the kernel level but it really boosts XP (I got over 40% improvement in performance)

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System file checker

Go to start / run and type

sfc /scannow

hit enter

(Best done in safe mode)

or

Sfc /scanonce

(will run on next boot)

This will run the system file checker to check the integrity of system files.

If they are found to be altered or damaged it will restore the backup copy.

If that fails it will prompt for the window install cd so it can restore from there.

If something is using the file it will prompt you to retry so it can pause the process using the file. On some you may need to do this several times if several things are using the file.

Remember to run windows update after you finish. I also like to run belarc advisor and check their list of missing or failed updates and use their provided links to get the manual download and install those.

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I have been running XP since I installed it back in the year it came out (Well early 2002 at least) without reinstalling or repairing any of the installations I manage.

[intocomputing2]

This is the page to the Norton removal utility

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgen...005033108162039

McAfee also offers a similar removal tool for its product

http://download.mcafee.com/products/licens...atches/MCPR.exe

We just tried the Norton removal utility, we downloaded it, run the file and the message for "succesfully uninstalled" showed up, but the option in start >> all programs is still there, and when we click on it we still get the "Welcome to the Norton Antivirus 2003 installation wizard", guess we'll try the McAfee option then, is the McAfee removal tool the same kind of file?

Those are just installers for free trial versions (usually a sixty day trial) which are normally bundled on many computers. It is not installed yet so there is nothing to uninstall.

Just right click and choose properties to find where the installer is located . Then you can delete the shortcut and the installer.

When you say the installer, are you talking about the folder where the files are? as you say I highlighted the option for Norton Antivirus 2003 and it told me in which folder the files are installed, but I'm not sure if deleting that folder will get rid of the program/installer, and then also even f it does, do you think I should run an app like revo uninstaller to get rid of the remains? (assuming there is any), and btw the computer has 1GB of RAM, anyway thx for all the suggestions, I'm going to try them out

Edited January 31, 2008 by intocomputing2

[Pete_C]

Those are just installers for free trial versions (usually a sixty day trial) which are normally bundled on many computers. It is not installed yet so there is nothing to uninstall.

Just right click and choose properties to find where the installer is located . Then you can delete the shortcut and the installer.

When you say the installer, are you talking about the folder where the files are? as you say I highlighted the option for Norton Antivirus 2003 and it told me in which folder the files are installed, but I'm not sure if deleting that folder will get rid of the program/installer, and then also even f it does, do you think I should run an app like revo uninstaller to get rid of the remains? (assuming there is any), and btw the computer has 1GB of RAM, anyway thx for all the suggestions, I'm going to try them out

Then just delete the shortcut to the installer so no one runs it and leave it on the computer.

But the idea is that they put the installer which you would normally have on a CD in a folder on the computer. Since there is no entry for this in add/ remove programs it means there is no program already installed. Those things in start => programs are just shortcuts to actual executables whether they be programs or installers . There are probably ones to offer to sign you up for AOL and other crap. You can delete them they are not programs. If it is listed in control panel => add/remove programs then it is indeed an installed program and you run the uninstaller from there and choose to uninstall it and that removes the shortcuts too.

[intocomputing2]

what is the best defragmentation program out there? does anybody know of any good one?

Edited February 4, 2008 by intocomputing2

[Pete_C]

what is the best defragmentation program out there? does anybody know of any good one?

I think it best to just stick with the one that comes with windows. Windows XP and Vista defrag is based on Diskkeeper lite.

One of its features is the ability to "optimize your hard disk when idle" and an "optimize boot" feature.

Generally speaking each defrag utiltity uses a different algorithm to determine how to optimally order files and if you have two installed and running you get warring defrag (IE speed disk moves a file one place, then XP defrag puts it back) . Have you ever stopped working and a few minutes later seen furious hard drive activity (the light goes on and stays on) This is XP doing a mini defrag.

In reality if you have NTFS , which is a file oriented system files are rarely fragmented; when you save something, it looks for a contiguous open space large enough to hold the entire file (while FAT 32, being address based will save the file starting at the first available empty location and split it up as needed creating fragmented files from the get go). What does get fragmented is the drive itself, there are empty spaces between files often not large enough to hold any large files. (very small files are actually saved to the Master File Table as part of their entry , pretty slick).

If you choose to use a third party app to defrag it is a good idea to also use tweak UI for XP to disable the optimize when idle / in the background feature and either edit the registry or use X-Setup to disable the boot optimization feature.

I like adding speedefrag

http://www.snapfiles.com/reviews/speedefrag/speedefrag.html

SpeeDefrag is a simple program, that restarts your computer and runs defrag.exe with optimized windows settings before loading your desktop, which allows for faster and more thorough defragmentation. Once the defrag process has finished, it can optionally shut down your PC, otherwise reboot it.

This runs checkdisk and defrags the master file table on reboot before windows loads and then boots to windows as a "cleanboot" and finishes defragging .

It may seem to take forever but is very effective.

The Diskkeeper / windows defrag keeps track of your file and application usage (the prefetch folder is also based on this) and sorts things based on several criteria, including are they OS, Programs, or data ; are they loaded during boot, every time you use your pc, or only occaisionally. It then will place them optimally to get the fastest possible boot time and application / file load times for things you use all the time. (Well, eboostr improves on this dramatically by caching copies of these most used files on a USB drive to facilitate booting and loading applications).

[intocomputing2]

I have an update on this issue, in the last week my friend bought a new 120 GB hard drive for this laptop, just today we got some spare time from schoolwork so I helped her and installed the hard drive, since this hard drive is much bigger we thought about installing her copy of Windows XP using the CD and her key license recovered thanks to berlac advisor, as suggested on this thread, we thought about formatting the old drive once this new one is installed, registered and running, but to my surprise when I was trying to install WinXP in her new 120 GB hard drive and use the license that Berlac Advisor recovered from her old hard drive, it just wouldn't work, it didn't accept it at all. Now, I have some questions:

Why didn't the installation wizard accept the key license from berlac advisor? aren't they the same?

She doesn't have the original envelope for her copy of WinXP, what are her options at this point?

Would it be possible to install her copy of windows by creating an image of her computer and then try to install from that in the new drive?

Is there any way for her to make a fresh install again and not lose her copy of windows?

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds

Edited February 26, 2008 by intocomputing2

[shanenin]

What kind of XP disk is it? I have a hunch it is not a plain oem cd. Could it possibly be an upgrade or retail version? If it is, this will not work with an oem key.

From what I remember, even the key that comes preinstalled with most oem computers(different then the COA key) WILL allow you to install, but will NOT allow you to activate.

[intocomputing2]

What kind of XP disk is it? I have a hunch it is not a plain oem cd. Could it possibly be an upgrade or retail version? If it is, this will not work with an oem key.

From what I remember, even the key that comes preinstalled with most oem computers(different then the COA key) WILL allow you to install, but will NOT allow you to activate.

It's an Win XP Pro CD, it's the full version not an upgrade, and it didn't come with the laptop, she bought it separately. She has the disc but she doesn't have the box with the product key.

Edited February 28, 2008 by intocomputing2

[TheTerrorist_75]

Contact the vendor from where the WinXP Pro CD was purchased and see if they can help with the correct key or contact Microsoft to purchase a new key.

[intocomputing2]

oh man, I don't think spending more money to purchase a new key is going to sound very appealing to her. I guess I'll tell her to contact either BestBuy/Circuit City depending where she got it from. Thanks for the imput

Edited February 28, 2008 by intocomputing2

[shanenin]

It's an Win XP Pro CD, it's the full version not an upgrade, and it didn't come with the laptop, she bought it separately. She has the disc but she doesn't have the box with the product key.

That is the problem. You are trying to use a full version disk with a oem key.

TT_75 found this article and posted about it previously. I have used this technique with windows 2000. It is a grey area, but I believe it is ok, so long as you are not using the same key on multiple computers.

http://www.thetechguide.com/howto/setuppini.html

[Pete_C]

It's an Win XP Pro CD, it's the full version not an upgrade, and it didn't come with the laptop, she bought it separately. She has the disc but she doesn't have the box with the product key.

That is the problem. You are trying to use a full version disk with a oem key.

TT_75 found this article and posted about it previously. I have used this technique with windows 2000. It is a grey area, but I believe it is ok, so long as you are not using the same key on multiple computers.

http://www.thetechguide.com/howto/setuppini.html

If the original drive still works fine; just clone it to the new one.

No big issue there and if the drive has a recovery image on it you get that too.

I like to use the apricorn EZ upgrade kit

http://www.apricorn.com/products.php?cat_id=52

It is a USB external enclosure with a bootable cd which lets you put the new drive in the enclosure, and then clone the original drive to it.

Then you just swap drives. Makes it as easy as upgrading to a larger drive on PC .